How To Meet Pain, Sit With Temptation, And Practice Self-Compassion

Speaker 1 · 0:01Welcome everyone. Thank you for listening to our podcast. We really appreciate you. Today we're gonna be exploring how we can find balance in our mindfulness practice. How we can meet resistance, how we can meet maybe a sense of laziness so that we can find the right balance in our practice where we find a middle way where we don't fight discomfort or succumb to avoidance, but rather how we can bring this gentle awareness to what matters to us most, which is finding balance in these difficult times. I hope you enjoy it.

Speaker 2 · 0:52Thank you, Sean.

Speaker 1 · 0:54Welcome.

Speaker 2 · 0:55Over the weekend I had the opportunity to participate in uh overnight sitting meditation and uh following the footstep of the Buddha's enlightenment. So it was 7 p.m. to 5 a.m. I have done this before. This is no way the first time, and yet it was very interesting. I don't know whether it's because in the past month I have been walk and jack a lot more. In some way, try to support the walk for peace too. But I don't know because I do that and I'm not stretching a whole lot. So when this time when I did the sit and meditation, each session is only about an hour, 15 minutes, an hour and a half. But then I find like 45 minutes in, it was already discomfort. And knowing the length of the meditation, I did not try to do the full Lotus thing at all. I would just do the half lotus. Still, it was in some way like killing me. I said, okay, okay, it's five to six out of ten. Again, I said pain, pain calling the name, recognizing the discomfort, and trying to be aware of the pain and the feeling, and trying to practicing it and trying to focus on the breathing in and out on me. But I've just still trying to figure out, I don't know why. That whole night was a huge challenge for me. The first two sessions, I was trying to, okay, just deal with the pain. Just bear the pain. I can do it. The Buddha can do 49 days, I can do it for nine hours. This is nothing. This is nothing. But at some point it was really painful. And I tried to, in some way, contemplating my mom is dealing with cancer, and I am taking uh picked with cancer. So all these patients, all these people have all this can show pain. This is nothing. I can deal with this. I can take on my mom's pain. I can take on others' pain. I try to use that in some way to motivate me to minimize the pain what I have. It helps a little bit. But again, I said I am being too much in my mind. I'm not truly focusing. I'm focused too much on the pain. I'm trying to, so I try to really just sit, whatever, like not even proper. Just sit and relax and just let go. And the pain was still really there. My question for myself is what is the message for me in there? I think one message is yes, I have not physically taken myself, exercise, but not stretching, not relaxing. But the other one is because I haven't really meditated diligently, like every single day for a long session. I do, but it was having hour. And sometimes when I go to medicine center, but not every day an hour unless or something. So when I do this once a year, it's like, um, touch you, you have not been deleted. And I'm not trying to judge myself, not say, okay, you did wrong, you did that, you did that, but what lesson am I learning from this? And what can I do better moving forward? It's not about that night of enlightenment, but what enlightenment lesson can I learn moving forward? So thank you.

Speaker 1 · 4:26Yeah, thank you for sharing, Jean. Thank you for your practice and your dedication and your sincerity. Not many people do that meditating all night or walking for peace. I really admire your practice and your work with kids who are struggling

Speaker 1 · 4:49with cancer. And I'm very sorry about your mom right now. And I wish her well. You know, as you know, pain is a part of having these bodies. I'm glad that you allowed yourself to let go near the end to sit however you wanted to sit without forcing half lotus or full lotus. I don't know what lesson is meant for you. Oftentimes for people questioning experiences of pain, a common lesson is in compassion, which I think you have a lot of, and remembering that compassion is not complete if we don't fully include ourselves. On a practical level or a tactical level, one thing that a lot of people find helpful is to not use the word pain, but rather in more descriptive words of what the sensations are. Because pain can feel like twenty-three different things. So kind of sensing into the type of actual physical experience right now in this part of the knee, in that part of the knee, in this part of the hip, in that part of the ankle, and finding different descriptors, physical descriptors for different parts of the discomfort can be helpful because oftentimes we use the word pain, and there's an automatic, even a very, very, very slight judgment of it being not good, and it can create even like 1% resistance. You were talking about breathing in the belly. It sounded like that was maybe one of the practices you were doing. And so one invitation, if it fits within the retreat context or the overnight retreat context, would be to breathe not just in the belly, but the whole body, including the areas that feel discomfort or unpleasant. So to breathe with those areas, to invite the breath into those areas. And oftentimes that has a cooling, spacious effect and an integrated effect so that the discomfort is not quite as isolated and compact and intense. According to the Buddha, the second foundation of mindfulness, of feeling tones, pleasant, unpleasant, neutral. So working with the unpleasant and noticing what the mind does with unpleasant and noticing the cascading sequence of physical sensation, space, or buffer. What does the mind do with that? Is there judgment? It sounds like there's not much judgment, which is beautiful. But what does the mind do? You know, does it go in into thinking, speculation, questioning? What is the lesson? Connecting it with mom, work. So just noticing what the mind does, what you did, and then coming back. What are the sensations now? How are they changing? What's the shape of these sensations? So there's pain around here. What's the shape? Temperature, moisture, or dryness? When does it start transitioning into like no pain? So geographically in the body, where is the quote unquote pain or discomfort? And then where does it not feel pain? Are there parts of the body that feel pleasant? What parts feel neutral right now? So staying connected with the body, um, breathing with the body, there's a loving kindness practice, self-compassion practice. May I be safe, healthy, happy, at ease. Or many others feel this pain as well. It's common. Oh, can I treat myself like I would treat a good friend who's struggling with this pain? I do admire your perseverance with it. It's really funny.

Speaker 1 · 9:16Last night, my daughter, she's six, and she had a lot of energy last night and didn't want to go to bed. And so uh I was hanging out with her for quite a while last night. I rarely do this. Actually, I don't think I've ever said that, you know, I was a monk or anything, but my wife told her that a couple weeks ago. And I said, Remember how mom told you I was a monk for a while? Did you know that once a week we would stay up all night meditating until like four in the morning? She's like, Why would you do that? And I said, Well, like one of the lessons is that it taught us how to be okay with being tired. Because she was afraid that she wasn't gonna be able to go to sleep on time, and then she would wake up late, and then she would be tired at school. I said, If you're tired, that's okay. It's okay to be tired. And that once a week I would stay up all night, partly so that I could be okay with being tired on purpose. But those old night sits, like some nights were blissful, and some nights were fine, and there were many nights where there was a lot of pain. Those nights I felt like I grew a lot because I practiced meeting it, and sometimes it broke me down. Sometimes I needed to break down. Like I was not strong enough to continue resisting it. So for some people, the lesson is to break down. When I say break down, I mean kind of just let go of resistance and allow trapped energies to come out. Including fear or grief or rage, often rooted in fear. Gene, I'm grateful for you bringing it up as a practice that you do. And you know, not just monks and monasteries, but all of us find time to sit in meditation for a good chunk of the night in the darkness or with a candle and meet the fear, the pain. It's where a lot of our growth happens. On the other side of that pain, often is freedom. I remember, especially in my first year as a monk, I was meditating on hardwood floors, sleeping on hardwood floors, and I had never sat half lotus in my life, and now I'm doing it, you know, all day every day. I was like overweight. My hips and my knees and my ankles and my back were just in pain a lot. I was like scrubbing toilets all day, and just it was difficult. At that time, you know, I'd sit in like half lotus for 45 minutes, and I just thought my knees were gonna explode. I would meet it, be curious about it, breathe. At the 60-minute mark, it would completely vanish, and I felt great. It's like I can do this for hours. And there's these waves of pain, as you probably know, they're they come in waves. And you're not gonna die, but can you meet it? Can you breathe? And it's fine changing positions, but can we be mindful before, during, and after changing positions so that it's not breaking a meditation or but it's just part of the meditation. This gentle awareness, not bad, not wrong, just normal energies that happen to us all.

Speaker 2 · 12:51Thank you, Sean. This week, due to your encouragement, I will try to sit overnight one more time. But we'll relax and let go of expectation. Just be with us and just see. Maybe I'll report to you and the team uh later on.

Speaker 1 · 13:10Yeah, please do. Yeah, I'm rooting for you, Gene. Thank you for sharing that. Maybe I'll meditate all night tonight in solidarity.

Speaker 2 · 13:21May I have another question since I'm taking full advantage here? I heard about mindful eating. I have the opportunity to practice a lot with that, especially down in the plum village, Leapart. I love it. I love it, and yet when I go home, I don't do it. I love it when I practice in the military center in retreat. Last year, when I did the temporary nun over in Florida for 14 days afterward, I lost 10 pounds. And naturally and beautifully, unexpectedly, and everything, I truly appreciate the practice. And yet I found it so hard at home. The kitchen is right next to the living room, next to the TV. And I know it's due to all bad habits, but it's just the temptation, the thing is right there. Why can't I just eat and truly be with the food? Be grateful. Oh, the practice I've been practicing so many years, but it's just so very hard the temptations. Any word of advice, please?

Speaker 1 · 14:31Cut the cable to your TV. Burn the boats. Well, it's good noticing. One idea is to enjoy your meals with the nuns or the late Technathan at your table to invite them with you in spirit that they are here with you. You can enjoy breakfast with them. You can enjoy lunch with them. You can enjoy dinner with them and eat with them peacefully, savor the food, dedicate the merit, communicate with them, maybe share food with them, a plate for them, maybe an orange or something, water. You could find something that you look forward to that you feel meaningful is meaningful that helps you to remember your time as a nun, to reconnect with that feeling, that presence, that energy. Just an idea. Maybe you can write a book about it.

Speaker 3 · 15:50Hi everyone. Just getting these threads of Jean, it's uh how can we deal mindfulnessly with the temptation when it comes? Temptation? Yeah, because what uh Jin said, it's for me, it's present with uh food too, and many other things, right? That I wanna create a new habit, of course, the memory of the old habit, but also that it we could call temptation of uh doing the familiar, keep doing the familiar instead of giving a step towards something that I really want that will be much better for me, but just sleep on the same old, same old. So now I was like, the help it can be to deal with the temptation in the moment it's happening, because recognizing after you slipped on the temptation doesn't help much, right? Oh yeah, it's a good mindfulness, you acknowledge. Okay, but then I did it. So I was like, if I can create an awareness system, or I tell my client, a where is button, where when it's happening, if I can bring awareness of mindfulness uh practice to that moment, maybe I will fill up the moments that the immediate uh satisfaction of the temptation to something else that will refrain me in being mindful and not going, or give more time to decide if I'm going or not, instead of just uh being irrational, immediate, like a reflex or something that doesn't have any mind presence to say no. I'd love to know what I can add to my life.

Speaker 1 · 17:37So I'm just remembering that one of our guest teachers, Judson Brewer, who's probably top three expert in the world around mindful eating, gave a workshop for us on mindful eating. And he's a researcher at Brown University on this. He gave a step-by-step instruction. And it's not just for eating, but it's like these temptations you're talking about. But he kind of framed it in terms of eating. I think that that's probably the most thorough answer I can give you is to watch that.

Speaker 1 · 18:22You mentioned two of the pieces in your question, which is to stop, like there's this element of time, just to pause, breathe, reconnect with the body, get out of the head a little bit, and just kind of breathe for a while. So pausing is usually a part of all of these different methodologies to make wholesome, wise decisions. Pausing, breathing, connecting with the body, save parts of the body that feel okay to sense into, and really just breathe. Sometimes that'll take care of itself. If you just breathe for a little bit, you'll often come to your senses. It's like, what was I thinking? I'm not gonna do that. I don't mean to trivialize this or minimize it, but like sometimes that's all it takes, but sometimes it's not. We need more support. That's why there's so many teachings and teachers out there on how to deal with these things. But pausing is usually a big one. Reflecting on outcomes. The Buddha talks about it, Judson Brewer talks about it, Tony Robbins talks about it. A lot of teachers emphasize this. What are the outcomes of this decision? Wholesome or unwholesome, but to investigate. What are the probable outcomes of this? What has my past taught me? What are the patterns in my past? What are the outcome patterns of this behavior? Those would probably be my top two suggestions. Pausing and breathing for as long as you can. And then the other one is investigating what are the probable outcomes of this, sensing into those outcomes and the probable pain and suffering of it, or the joy and delight of it, or peace, or whatever it is, but to really sense into it, does this really feel like a good decision still? And then maybe a third question is if I still feel like I want to do this, and if I feel like it's a probable sort of bad outcome, is there a way I can do it in moderation? Because sometimes it's not all or nothing. It's like, well, maybe I'll have a bite of this thing. There's a lot of gray area with this last one, and I don't want to feed any addictions or anything, but it just depends on the situation. Is that helpful, Katya?

Speaker 3 · 21:04Very much. For chocolate, for example, I found a way. I bought the 70% that's awful. Oh. It's too awful. And yes, I can't go bigger than one square. So that's a result. Thank you. Yeah, it helped a lot. Eugene?

Speaker 2 · 21:27Hi. I normally work every Wednesday. May I? One more question before I go.

Speaker 4 · 21:33Yeah.

Speaker 2 · 21:34So I have practiced meditation for a long time, but again, I struggle, I think, both in relaxation, both spiritually, emotionally, and physically. I am just tense in general. So one of the things I try in the past few months when I talk to people and one lady was saying, maybe you should try progressive muscle. Relaxations, potentially tense different parts of the body and relax so that I have a feeling of what relaxation is really like. I know meditation, the goal is not to relax, but one of the things is to let go. Let go of all the mind, the thoughts, but also let go, relax, not about having the most proper form, but relax and let things be and let go. So I try, and I'm still learning the progress muscle relaxation and have a little some idea about okay, yes, I can sense the difference, of course, between really tense and really relax. But I don't know, is that really the right way to do it? Is to know, to get familiar with that feeling so that I can capture that feeling quickly, so that that helped me a little bit more relaxed starting from physical. And again, I know it's combinations, it's not one or the other. But may I ask whether it's even correct? So during that time when I was having pain on Saturday when I did the meditations, and I said, maybe because I'm too tense, because I'm trying too hard, so stiff. So I said, maybe then I just do that. Let's do it. Just tense it up every the whole body and relax. I try hit and miss, try this and that. But man asked, should I even trying to continue practicing that a little bit sideway of learning the progressive muscle relaxation as a way to more familiarize myself with the physical relaxations and to help me more able to holistically relax when I sit and meditate. Not sit and meditate, but mindful in general.

Speaker 1 · 24:01Yeah, yeah. I think it's a good idea to try it more. There are many, many kinds of meditation. Many of them are very helpful. Anything you can do to help your nervous system is helpful. Anything you can do to help your body relax, it's probably very helpful. Anything you can do to practice letting go, probably very helpful. This is a part of what the Buddha called wise effort or helpful effort. If we try too much, we will break. If we are too loose and too relaxed all the time, then we may not have enough focus, energy, concentration on the path, on the practice, and we will forget everything. So for you, what feels like it would help me to balance? Not too constricted, not too loose, but balanced. And so if you feel like you're too constricted, maybe a little too tight, then maybe there's many things you can do to find the balance, including progressive muscle relaxation, breathing, loving kindness, self-compassion. I'm sure you have many things that you can do. You know, eating with the nuns and techna. What feels like it would bring some relaxation, some joy. Anytime there's the word should, noticing that and softening that. But yes, softening around the heart, the body, dancing, playing, laughing, these things can help us to find a sense of ease, playfulness. So yeah, I think it doesn't all have to be hardcore mindfulness or meditating all night. But it's you know, whatever's gonna find that balance. So if the progressive muscle relaxation feels like it's helpful in finding balance, then I would continue that. And also looking at other things too that may or may not be prescribed by a monk or a mindfulness teacher. Playing with puppies and kitty cats and squirrels.

Speaker 2 · 26:42Thank you. May you all be well, happy, and peaceful.

Speaker 1 · 26:45You too, Jean. Thank you so much. Well, any other questions, comments, requests?

Speaker 5 · 26:54Cura? As I have half promised last time to tell you about my poor woman who wants by all means be my student. So the time has come tomorrow. She insisted I pretended not to remember. I mean nothing. I didn't say anything for two weeks. She kept telling me why, what, etc. So tomorrow we will meet briefly. Online. She's in another town. The last three days I really focused on this while meditating. Somehow it came spontaneously. And I feel incredibly calm, almost confident, perhaps because I focused on the teaching, I know how to teach, but I don't know how to teach this. But I know how to teach and it helps, I think. And I rewind while meditating, I memorized what I was doing to do it with her breathing, of course, because it's what I do. I usually do this mindful breathing. So tomorrow, let's say I'm ready. Perhaps I will take a few notes. What do you think? Script, I mean, or something.

Speaker 1 · 28:12I personally like general outlines, but not like a specific word-for-word script. Yeah. But yeah, I think that you're preparing for it well. There's a lot of humility here. Go for it. Based on the suggestions I had last time. I think it sounds good. Like she wants help.

Speaker 5 · 28:33So Yeah, but I don't know why me.

Speaker 1 · 28:37Well, does it matter?

Speaker 5 · 28:39No. Okay.

Speaker 1 · 28:42She wants help. And so you can help her with whatever you think you can help her with, which I'm sure is a lot. Yeah, just go into it with some care. And you remember to breathe and feel your heart caring for her, speaking from a heart as much as you can, finding your own grounded flow. I think that's the main thing. If you have too much of a script and you get in your head too much, then you might miss the feeling of it.

Speaker 5 · 29:14No, no. I didn't write. I think I'm too confident. I'm too much because it's not grounded, it's not based on experience. I mean, teaching experience, yes, but not this. So I just want to be there for her.

Speaker 1 · 29:32Yeah, maybe you can like think of it as just being friendly and not like as a teacher, but just as you, just being a friend.

Speaker 5 · 29:43She's a scattered woman, a salesperson, you know. Very ch ch chyper from me.

Speaker 1 · 29:50Maybe she needs a friend.

Speaker 5 · 29:53I don't know whether it's nice to say this, but for me it's yes, but it's like my dogs. They chose me. I didn't choose them. Something you don't know by. As if she were attracted to me. She has a very beautiful family and daughters, parents, and everything. So she doesn't, let's say, need me. So I wonder why. She says that I'm always so smiling and calm. It's not true. The smiling perhaps but not calm.

Speaker 1 · 30:26Well, none of us are always calm. Maybe just stay connected here, ask her some questions and be there for her as a friend. Listen, you know, and share whatever you think might be helpful as an invitation for her to try. Just to kind of see what works for her. No pressure, no weight. You're not there to fix her or to change her life overnight. But just offer maybe a few different things for her to try that have helped you as a fellow human being. And let us know how it goes. If you want.

Speaker 5 · 31:09At this point I can't say no because she insisted she called me twice, she wrote me very nicer and nicer to seduce me, so to say, no. I noticed all this, of course, but so I thought perhaps she needs something that she thinks I can give her. So okay. Yeah? Whether I'm up to Level.

Speaker 1 · 31:33Well, can offer whatever you can. You'll be okay. Thank you. Yeah, you'll be fine. It's really sweet to hear what's coming up for different people. And we're all on this journey together, and

Speaker 1 · 31:50it unfolds in very mysterious ways. The best we can do is just to show up moment by moment with this gentle awareness. Breathe. Move forward, aligned with our values and our intentions. We can't control outcomes, but we can meet each moment. So thank you for practicing with me today. Thank you for all the good work you're doing in the world. And I hope this was helpful. And I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day today. Thank you, everybody. Have a good day.