Leon Logothetis on His Epic Journey To Freedom Documented on Netflix & Amazon Prime

Speaker 1 · 0:00Hi, welcome everyone. Welcome to the Mindfulness Exercises Podcast. I'm Sean Fargo. Today I have the honor of speaking with Leon Logothetis, aka the kindness guy. You may have uh seen his recent documentary on Amazon Prime called The Kindness Within: A Journey to Freedom. And for everyone listening or watching, I highly recommend going to watch that. Leon, before becoming a global adventurer and TV host, and most motivational speaker and bestselling author of five books, Leon lived an uninspired life as a finance professional in London. Though seemingly successful, he was chronically depressed. And to change his life, he gave it all up for a life on the road, fueled by giving and receiving kindness. Traveling to over a hundred countries, he found humanity's essence and the bonds connecting people worldwide. Through kindness, he saw that comparing similarities rather than differences created a brighter future. For over a decade, Leon has inspired the world with this message of kindness and hope. This shines through his hit TV show, The Kindness Diaries on Discovery Plus, and through his new documentary, The Kindness Within, on Amazon Prime. When not making shows, error writing, Leon travels, speaking about kindness, compassion, and empathy. His goal is to make a positive impact. He also founded Winston Entertainment, producing content highlighting the good side of humanity. Leon Logothetis, welcome to the podcast. Thank you very much for having me. Yeah, it's an honor to meet you. You've been doing this for quite a while, living a lifestyle that I think many would would dream of, benefiting uh the planet, uh helping people with their mental health and spiritual health, and um traveling the world. Um I'd love to start um to hear about your journey in your documentary. You talk about how this journey started with a suicide note where you wanted to end your life. Uh, can you talk about where you were mentally at that time and what spurred this uh big shift in your life?

Speaker 2 · 2:46Sure, sure. So um I have to go um many years back to get to answer your question in order for people to fully understand. So I used to, as you mentioned, I used to be a broker in the city of London. And on the outside, I had uh pretty much everything you could ever want. Uh, but on the inside, I had pretty much nothing you would want. Uh, but no one knew because I was wearing a mask, not the COVID-19 type, the psychological mask that says, oh, everything's okay, but everything was not okay. Um, and I ended up uh stumbling across the movie The Motorcycle Diaries, which is a romanticized version of Che Guevara traveling around South America relying entirely on kindness. And I don't know if you've ever seen a movie, hopefully mine, but that touches you so much that you think the director's talking directly at you. Um that's what happened to me with the cut with uh the motorcycle diaries. So, to cut a long story short, I quit my job and uh I started to travel around the world relying entirely on the kindness of strangers. Um and I hitchhiked from Times Square to the Hollywood sign, I hitchhiked from the Eiffel Tower to Red Square in Moscow, uh, got a vintage taxi and drove it from New York to LA, giving free cab rides to people. I did all these crazy things. Um, and that culminated in the craziest thing, which was uh buying a vintage yellow motorcycle with a sidecar called Kindness One, sort of like Air Force One, but a little bit yellower. And I drove that from LA all the way around the world back to LA. Uh I had no money, no food, no gas, no place to stay. Um, all I had was relying on kindness. You couldn't give me money, just generosity. And I did another season of that where I went from Alaska to Argentina doing the same thing. Um, and I thought I'd arrived after after I had finished that, right? I got the Netflix show, I got books, I got speaking engagements, I was on top press, and I thought that I'd fixed myself, right? But unfortunately, what had happened was I'd kind of again fixed the outside and not fix the inside, right? Um, and that leads us to being in Los Angeles where I live, being in my bed and writing this note. Um, because I I realized that everything I had done, not that I wasn't proud of all the success, but it it hadn't healed my heart. Um, so I was writing this note, unfortunately, I called my therapist. It was 11 o'clock at night, and randomly or not randomly, he picked up the phone and he talked me through it, and obviously I didn't uh act on it, and and here I am. I mean, that's the short version of how I ended up uh writing that note and not acting on it. Um, and it was interesting because the next day, and this leads into the movie, the next day I went to a bookshop, um, a bookshop that I'd been to hundreds of times uh in Venice Beach, and I randomly saw, again, randomly, I don't know, but I randomly saw the autobiography of a yogi, which I had seen so many times before, and I'd never picked it up, ever. So this time I decided to pick it up. And I picked it up and I randomly opened it to a page and I randomly looked at a paragraph. And in that paragraph, Paramahansa Yogananda, who wrote the book, said to his soon-to-be guru, if you reveal God to me, I will follow you anywhere. And I had an epiphany, and I'm not talking about the God that lives up in the sky, I'm talking about universal energy of love, source, universe, whatever you want to call it. But I had an epiphany. And I decided that I was going to go to India and I wasn't going to return until I found God. And that's really the nature of the documentary. So that was kind of a long-winded answer to your question.

Speaker 1 · 6:46There's a lot there to unpack. And um yeah, it's it's a fascinating life you've lived so far. I'm really glad that you didn't take your life. I'm really curious when you watch the motorcycle diaries, and you know, you're a broker in London, you're chronically depressed, you were wearing a mask of sorts. Maybe a suit was a form of a mask, perhaps. But I'm curious, what about the motorcycle diaries spoke to you? I'm guessing that there's something heart-based in the movie that kind of reminded you of, say, your essence that you had perhaps lost, or um, that kindness was, you know, a value of yours that wasn't being prioritized in your life. Um, you know, what about the movie do you think really spoke to you, your heart or your soul, for you to start this journey?

Speaker 2 · 7:48So that's a great question. Um the movie opened my eyes to the potential of humanity. It opened my eyes and my heart to connection. It opened my eyes and my heart to adventure, to travel, to going out and giving back, um, and emotionally connecting with the world and the people that live in it. And it was such a it was such a powerful reminder of what I'd lost. And I wasn't conscious of what I'd lost, right? Uh, you know, I was working and doing what I thought was the right thing to do, but I had lost my humanity and I'd lost my connection to my humanity and to your humanity. And I think the movie was a very, very um profound wake-up call. It was like, there's another way to live. And I think another thing that happened with the movie was that again, it's a romanticized version, but basically, Che Guevara's father in the movie wanted him to be a doctor. And Che said, no, I'm not gonna do that. I'm gonna go and have this great adventure. And that's that's kind of what happened to me, right? Like I felt that I was supposed to do one thing and never had the courage until that moment to do something else. And the movie woke me up in that way.

Speaker 1 · 9:07Yeah, I was gonna say that um is a tremendous amount of courage to essentially give up your way of life, and I'm assuming, you know, decent money and um all the things that come with that, in order to, you know, get on a motorcycle and rely solely on the generosity of others. Um, you know, people say that about um people who become, say, Buddhist monks or monastics of different sorts, that they give up everything in order to um tap into, you know, humanity and and love, but they also know that within the traditions of a monastery, they're gonna be fed every day. They're gonna have a roof over their head. You, on the other hand, relied solely on the generosity of others without any guarantees of a tradition to support you, or um, you know, lay people devotedly, you know, prostrating themselves toward you, towards you, giving you food or a place to stay just because you wore robes. Like you went out as a lay person, you know, in the West on a motorcycle, relying solely on the generosity and kindness of others, and that takes, in my opinion, a greater amount of courage in many ways to surrender um everything that you had had to gain you know something more fulfilling. Can you talk about the courage it took to do that, the any fears that arose along the way, and what you learned through that process?

Speaker 2 · 11:00Look, I think that uh my pain was my emotional pain was so acute that, and this is before the note, right? This is this happened years before that. This is leaving after the after the movie, right? The motorcycle diagnosis. The pain was so acute that I in some ways didn't have a choice. So you could argue while you were courageous, but you could also argue that it wasn't because I had no choice. I I had to do something different, I had to change, or it was gonna end very badly. Um so the fears, you know, of course, there were there were lots of fears. But again, I didn't really think too much about what I was doing because the the pain was so great that I just felt I had to do this, and I didn't think too much about um what it was I was doing. Because if I thought about it, I wouldn't do it. Like the first trip I ever did was I hitchhiked from Times Square to the Hollywood sign. And when I arrived in the Hollywood sign, I was like, I started to realize what on earth I'd done. Like, oh my God, I've I've quit my job and now I'm actually going to hitchhike to the Hollywood sign. I mean, that's madness. How the hell am I gonna hitchhike to the Hollywood sign? I mean, that's just insane. But I had no choice at that moment because I had started this thing and I certainly wasn't going to uh give up or you know, call my father and say, can I have my job back? Right. I mean, that wasn't what I was gonna do. So they say, and I'm not even sure if this is true, but they do say that the conquistadors burnt their ships. And they burnt their ships so that they couldn't go home and they had to keep going. And on some level, that's what I did. I burnt my ships and I had to get to the Hollywood Sign. And that was the first thing that I did. Uh and I did, I got to the Hollywood Sign. Uh, it was a crazy adventure, but it was a life-changing one. Um, and I think you'll the last part of that question was the lessons I learned. Oh and again, this I'm just talking about that first thing, right? Well, with the lessons, I'll talk about all the lessons up until up until the movie, let's say. All the lessons I've had. Uh, then we'll go into the lessons of the movie later. So look, the lessons I learned, I mean, they were life-changing. It was, I often say that travel is the school of life. Um, the greatest lesson I learned, and there were many, but the greatest lesson I learned was that we are all the same. What do I mean by that? At the essence and at the base of our humanity, we are all the same. We want to be seen, we want to be heard, and we want to be lm. Irrespective of how much money you have, irrespective of what color you are, irrespective of your religion, at the very base of our humanity, at our essence, we are the same. And I learned that profoundly when I was in India. So this was the journey where I took the yellow motorbike around the world. I ended up in in Delhi and um I ended up sleeping in the slums for three nights. That morning, I woke up because I'd met this guy. That morning I woke up and I went downstairs and I looked outside and I saw this mother uh kiss her two kids goodbye for school. Now, if you've been to a slum in India, you'll you'll know that there's a lot of poverty, it's extreme, but there's also a lot of love. And as she kissed her kids goodbye for school, I realized that her love for her kids is exactly the same as your love for your kids. We are the same, and that was a profound lesson. And it took me to traveling to over a hundred countries, not just that one experience, but to to realize that. Um, and there are so many we could be here for hours, it could be the all the lessons I've learned on my trip, but that was the most profound one for sure.

Speaker 1 · 15:02Yeah, it's very profound. You mentioned that quote um uh from the book Autobiography of a yogi, which I highly recommend to to people listening, that uh in the Venice bookstore you opened up the book randomly and found that that quote that if you can show me God, you know, I will follow you anywhere, and that that you know set you off to India, I believe. Um is there something around you surrendering everything that you had you know gained, so to speak, um, living the lifestyle of a yogi in some ways, um where you have kindness as your signpost, as your um North Star for this whole journey. That I'm wondering if there's a sense of showing a glimpse of God to people on your journey through this act of asceticism, communicating with people as with kindness as your explicit purpose that they kind of were wanting a um a glimpse of God and that they would support you as a way to connect with something greater in themselves. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 · 16:30That's a brilliant question. And sometimes people, I never thought of it like that, but sometimes people said to me, um, and this is not in the movie, this is before, right? The the kindness diaries. Some people said to me, why on earth did others help you? Why were they helping you? And look, not everyone helped me. Let's be clear, if you watch the kindness diars, which is actually now on Roku, you'll see that a lot of people did not help me. But why did they help me? And I think you're right. They wanted to feel one of the reasons, they wanted to feel a connection to themselves, a connection to God through their connection with me, right? And through this crazy man who was traveling around the world relying on kindness. And and they wanted to feel love, they wanted to feel hope, they wanted to feel that universal energy that flows through all of us. And I was just a conduit for them. So that's a brilliant question. No one's ever asked me that, and I've been asked many, many, many questions about this show.

Speaker 1 · 17:29Yeah, and you know, I agree with you. I think we all want to be seen and heard and loved, and you know, there's many portals to that, and you know, I think you document that in your um documentary, The Kindness Within A Journey to Freedom. You know, there's portals, you know, in the exterior that can kind of help remind us that it's already within. Um, can you talk about like how your journey on the outside, which is, you know, you've had many journeys on the outside, you know, around planet Earth that are quite epic, but how that those physical journeys have made your made their way into the heart and soul, and how you might recommend other people to kind of you know peel the layers of the onion, so to speak, to find that within themselves in a way that um is say sincere.

Speaker 2 · 18:41That's another brilliant question. So I always say that uh travel is not just an external journey, ultimately it is an internal journey. And the beauty of travel for me has not just been the external experiences I've had, it's really been the internal life-changing experiences I've had. Um, if you're, for example, in Nepal, one of the first spiritual moments of awakening that I had, I had been hiking in Nepal for a week or so. And I had a, this was many years ago, and I had a moment where I was like, you know what, I can't do this anymore, I can't hike anymore. So I I went, I I found a really, really nice hotel and I stayed there for two nights. And I remember the first moment I got to the hotel, went to my room, and then I went out into the grounds and I saw the most beautiful sunset. And in that moment, I absolutely realized that there was so much going on inside me that I had just not been connected to. And it was my first moment of having a spiritual awakening. And that may or may not have happened had I, you know, been at home. I think the fact that I was in the pool, the fact that I'd been hiking, the fact that I went to a really nice hotel, saw this amazing sunset was all played into this spiritual moment of mine. But that spiritual moment happened within me. Um, and if you can transform, that's why we call the movie movie the kindness within, right? Um it's if you can transform within, and I I feel like with you, I'm obviously preaching to the choir. Um, but if you can transform within, everything will change outside you. Your whole life will change if you concentrate on within. But what we've done, for whatever reason, we've created this society, culture, civilization, whatever you want to call it, where it's all geared to fixing outside as opposed to inside. There's nothing wrong with getting cool stuff. There's nothing wrong with having all these amazing experiences. But if those experiences don't translate to something magnificent inside, then they'll in some way will be hollow.

Speaker 1 · 20:56Yeah, fully agreed. Um, and speaking of that journey within, in your documentary, The Kindness Within, uh, you had an interview with Sadhguru, and he had a powerful quote. I'm I don't have the quote in front of me, but he said something to the effect of how in order to find freedom, which is kind of what we're all looking for in some way, that it's very helpful to realize that it's not the externals that determine our experience, but rather we have the choice of how to respond to each unfolding experience as it happens. And that when we realize that it's really how we respond that determines our freedom, we can take a full step forward into that freedom. And unfortunately, most people, if they take a step at all, it's a half step, or it's a step, you know, with fear or trepidation, or not fully believing this truth. Um can you, you know, and your journey is a documentary of you taking, you know, leaps into um this sense of trust that you can um choose your experience, you know, with heart, with kindness. And it's a unfolding of you know, more and more freedom. Um so can you talk about how you and your experience kind of discovered the sense of choice of kindness and how um you learn to trust yourself to take bigger and bigger steps forward into that lived experience?

Speaker 2 · 22:52Sure. Um, first of all, I don't do any of what I'm sharing perfectly by any stretch of the imagination, right? When I give my speeches or chat with people, I often tell them that the the they are getting the best version of Leon, right? So the best version of Leon is now on your podcast. The worst version of Leon, well, you know, you probably wouldn't, no one would want to listen to it, or maybe they would, uh who knows. But look, I think a wise man once said to me, and and obviously this is something that has been said many times, but there's that space whereby we get to choose our reaction. And often, I talk for myself here, I never had the capacity or the ability to choose my reaction. Someone would say something and I would just react. Someone, something would happen to me and I would just react. And sometimes that still does happen, but it happens less. So now, because of all the stuff I've done, because of all the travels, because of all the experiences, if something happens to me that I don't like, generally, there are certain things that I have less control over, but generally I am able to be like, hmm, okay, how do you want to react? Even if it's like a minuscule moment of space where you can think about what to do. That's that's that's life-changing. And if you don't, this I I speak for myself here, but if you don't meditate, if you don't, you know pray, if you don't go out into nature, if you don't calm yourself down, however that may be, through music, et cetera, et cetera, have some kind of practice, then it becomes very, very, very difficult to live in that small space where you get the opportunity to react differently.

Speaker 1 · 24:43Beautiful. Well said. And I'd love to um dive a little bit deeper into those ways that we can create um more space in between the stimulus and response uh that I think you're referring to from Victor Frankel. Um you traveled the world and you know communicated with gurus and monks and you know, spiritual advisors from many traditions. Are there um certain practices or meditations that um you found particularly interesting or helpful for you on your journey?

Speaker 2 · 25:27Well, I mean, I I do different types of meditation. For me, taking a hike, I live in LA, so I live near some really, really cool hikes. I just came back from a hike. For me, one of the most beautiful ways to meditate is literally to take a hike. Yeah, leave your phone and just go for a hike. And it's a beautiful way to just center yourself. Then obviously, there's the the meditation meditation, yeah, which I I've found to be very helpful. Um, and another thing that I do, again, this isn't this isn't new, uh, but I had this many years ago and only recently started to realize that it's true, is everything is a meditation. Me and you having this conversation is a meditation, right? It's like how we show up in this podcast together is a meditation. One of the things I love doing that really calms me down, and I've shared this before, is that I find a song that calms me down, that touches my heart, and I listen to it on repeat. If I'm anxious, after listening to that song on repeat for maybe 30 minutes, instead of being 90% anxious, I will be 50% anxious. And it's such a simple thing that anyone can do at any point. Just put a song on repeat that calms you down and listen to it until you are no longer as anxious as you were. It sounds so simple, but it it has helped me so much.

Speaker 1 · 26:53Beautiful. Um, any any songs that you recommend or artists?

Speaker 2 · 26:58The the current song that I'm listening to that has calmed me down is uh called Soft Shell Crab by Mowgli. It's so beautiful, just literally like it just calms me down. I was listening to it before. Our call. Uh Mowgli, M-O-D. Mowgli, M-O-W-G-L-I, Mowgli. Okay. Yeah. Soft shell crab. What a great song.

Speaker 1 · 27:24Well, it almost sounds like a metaphor, you know, like um, you know, most crabs have these hard uh shells um for protection and you know, bracing against things, but may we all be soft shell crabs, you know, it with the right circumstances, as long as we're safe.

Speaker 2 · 27:44But yeah, that is exactly what it is. I never even thought about that. I was thinking to myself, why did you call this soft shell crab? But that's exactly what it is because she talks about that. He called me his soft shell crab, I think she says something like that. Sweet. Yeah, wow, that's beautiful. There you go.

Speaker 1 · 28:00Yeah. In your documentary, you feature a quote that I found very inspiring from Atticus. Your scars are not your shame, they are your story, and I love stories. Your scars are not your shame, they are your story, and I love stories. And you know, a lot of people I think are afraid to be vulnerable to share their scars because they're afraid of judgment, that they're a bad person, or that they're not worthy, or that they should have done something different, or that they still should do something different. And I think there's an epidemic of shame these days, at least in the West, where people feel like they need to be someone who they're not, or do something that they're they don't want to do, that um they aren't loved, they're not heard, they're not seen, and therefore they're not worthy. And, you know, with your documentary, your books, your, you know, TV shows, um share your scars and your stories. And you know, it hasn't um killed you, people aren't judging you. You're still here, and if anything, it's helped people to connect with you as a human being, as someone on the journey who, you know, maybe um, you know, your best version on this podcast, but we all know that you know you have your tough times too. And maybe I'll book the uh the worst version of Leon for my next podcast. Okay. But but um can you share any words for people who do feel shame about their scars or who feel Um like it's unsafe to be vulnerable to share their stories. And what have you learned by sharing your story?

Speaker 2 · 30:09Yeah, that's another great question. So I understand people's vulnerability, and I think that our their vulnerability is because we have shared our pain with the wrong people. We have shared our pain with people who we wish would love us the way we deserve to be loved, but they have taken our vulnerability and squashed it. And because of that, we have decided not to share our pain and our vulnerability with anyone. And I understand that. What I would say is the way out of that is to find at least or just one human being that you can share your pain with who is safe. Just one human being. Because if we share our pain with someone who is unsafe, it does irrevocable damage. Not irrevocable, it does a lot of damage. All damages can be fixed. So my suggestion is to speak to a friend who's safe, to speak to a parent who's safe, to speak to someone. If that's a therapist, go to a therapist. And some people say to me, Oh, well, Leon, I don't have the money to go to a therapist. I understand that. However, there is a solution. And the solution is, I'll tell you a story about a friend of mine. I have a friend who has financial issues but wanted to go to a therapist. So he found trainee therapists from universities where normal therapists cost $150 and this therapist cost $10. So there is always a way to find at least one human being who can hear you, who can see you, and who can love you, and who ultimately can witness who you are, because that's the most important thing, to have at least one witness of who you are.

Speaker 1 · 32:09Beautiful. Yeah. And this may sound controversial, but you know, I think there are ways that Chat GPT can support our journeys to find methods or practices or assurance of how we can find self-love or how we can work through our stories, um, ways that we can process, you know, some of our wounds. Um but yeah, I agree. I think we shouldn't let finances be a prohibiting factor here. And I think that most mindfulness and meditation teachers who are worth their weight and salt offer some form of um scholarship or you know, free resources um uh to find support because uh yeah, and also I will say that let's say let's exaggerate a little bit, and let's say that you don't have ten dollars.

Speaker 2 · 33:22Okay, I understand. However, there are so many YouTube videos that can change lives. Like there was a moment in time when I was uh trying to understand narcissism, so I watched hundreds, hundreds of videos on narcissism. I'm not an expert, but now I understand it, and that didn't cost me anything. So there's always a way. There is always a way. If you want to find it, if you don't, that's okay. When you do, you will.

Speaker 1 · 33:51Absolutely. Well said. Um I'm wondering um, you know, you you mentioned your dad uh once or twice. I'm wondering um how the people who knew you before uh the motorcycle diaries, how they responded to you? I know that's a big question, and there's many people you knew before, and maybe not all of them took well to this transformation, but can you share like how the people from your quote unquote past has responded to your transformation? Is there anything surprising or uh revelatory that um you've experienced from those people from your past?

Speaker 2 · 34:40So I would say that at the beginning of this process, which is when I watched the movie and I started to travel around the world rely on kindness, many people thought I was, you know, a bit insane, which I get. I mean, you know, I was. I mean, who quits their job and then goes and hitchhikes across America? Not many people I know. Uh so it was a bit insane, right? But as time went on, and they and that actually there's nothing wrong with with with a little bit of madness, let's say a little bit of divine madness. Sometimes that's a good thing. Um, so I you know, I ended up uh doing all these crazy things and learning so much. And I think after a while, they kind of understood. They saw the shifts, they sh saw the changes, and I would say there was uh, you know, for my family a level of respect. Um, that that you know, I had done what I wanted to do. Because most of us don't do that. Uh, and I understand it's not easy to do that. I had certain set of unique circumstances that enabled me to do what I needed to do, and there are others that can't do that. But even if you don't have the same unique circumstances I had, there's always a way. If you want to find that path, you will find it. If you don't want to find that path, you will never find it.

Speaker 1 · 35:53Yeah, I guess it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you really want to do it, yes, you will, but if you really don't want to do it, then you won't.

Speaker 2 · 36:03Exactly.

Speaker 1 · 36:04Yeah. What do you hope people will feel or learn or experience as they watch the kindness within on Amazon Prime?

Speaker 2 · 36:14Uh, that there is another way to live. Um, and that the new way to live is from the heart. I'm not saying don't go out there and make money, be famous, become successful, do whatever you want. God bless you, go and do all of those things. But if you live from the heart and you live from a place of love, everything will change. And I'm not the first person to say that, and I won't be the last person to say that. But you have to have that moment of awakening, even if it's a small little moment to go on that journey. And sometimes it's a big moment, sometimes it's a small moment. You could argue that me watch me having that uh uh moment with the sunset in Nepal was a really small moment, but in fact, it was a huge moment. And it took 25 years from that moment to get to here. But that was the first moment. And did I realize that whilst I was watching the sunset? Maybe not, but I did realize that something magical had happened. It took a lot of hard work and a lot of dedication to get to where I am today. But uh here I am. So I hope what I hope that the movie does is it wakes people up even a very small amount. Even if you watch that movie and you have a moment like I had in Nepal, that's enough. Because you'll never forget that moment. And you'll sit there years afterwards and you'll be like, hmm, when I watched that movie, something happened, something shifted. And here I am now because of that.

Speaker 1 · 37:46Beautiful. And what's next on your journey? Do you have another trip, book, show? What's uh what's what's next for you?

Speaker 2 · 37:57Yeah, so you know, I I made a decision that after the movie, after I completed promoting the movie, whilst promoting the movie, that I really wasn't going to do too much. I was just gonna focus on this, and whatever would happen afterwards would happen. I spent most of my life doing. I don't know if you remember in the movie there's a scene where I'm sitting by the statue of Shiva in Rishikesh, and uh I'm talking to Nandini G, this very magnificent lady. And I said to her, Look, I basically what I said to her was, Look, I want what you have. How do I get it? And she said to me, Don't do just be. And I was like, all right, I'm going home now. No, but it was such a beautiful comment, and uh, and I I've tried to live my life like that. You know, there are a few things happening, but nothing major. I've just what will be will be. I'm trying to be, and we'll see what happens. The doing may come, but just generally, don't do just be.

Speaker 1 · 38:50Yeah, actually, thank you for bringing that up. I wanted to ask you about that. She um she said it quite convincingly and very directly, and she repeated it. And um the yeah, just the way she said it with so much confidence uh was so powerful. And I think that that's a wonderful takeaway for for a lot of us, myself included, that you know, when we even when we practice meditation or mindfulness, a lot of us can approach it from this lens of trying to get somewhere or trying to force something to happen, um, trying to get something. Um when it's really about the journey of the process of meeting this moment, however it is. Um, you know, and we can meet sadness and fear just as we can meet uh courage and joy. And we just be with whatever's here, we be with our raw emotions, our raw felt experience, um, what's happening in the world. We can be with it with that sense of care and witnessing and listening, these elements of God, of love. And you know, we can keep following that um until our final breaths and and beyond. Um, but that it's not about the destination, it's not about getting something or doing something just for the sake of it, it's about being with it. Um, or at least that's that's one approach. And um, you know, and it it's um a little ironic that you know that can take effort, that it takes effort to simply be and surrender to what's here and work with our reactivity and um and judgments that you know uh crop up out of pattern and fear. Um, but um, but we can cultivate this sense of beingness over time. And and I think your movie, your documentary, and it sounds just like your your aura, your your mission in general is to help people to find that within themselves, um, with that sense of gentle kindness to um to bring that to ourselves and to others through knowing that we're all you know the same, essentially, um, and that there's really nothing to fear in like otherness or xenophobia or anything like that. Yeah. Um, Leon, um, would you like to share anything as we wrap up this conversation that you'd like our listeners to to hear or anything that you'd encourage them to try? Again, the kindness within is on Amazon Prime. Um, we'll have the uh website and the show notes and um be sharing all that. Um your uh website is leon logothetis.com, L-E-O-N-L-O-G-O T H E T I S dot com. Um what would you like to share as we um wrap up this conversation today?

Speaker 2 · 42:27So as you can tell from my accent, I'm I'm English. I was uh born in London, and uh I'm a student of history, and uh Winston Churchill had many good quotes, but one of my favorite quotes of his was when you find yourself walking through hell, keep walking. And what do I think he meant by that? When you're suffering, keep going, because ultimately you're gonna come out of suffering and you're gonna be a much, much better human being. So that would be my final word. Whatever you're going through, find someone to share your pain with and keep going. Because I am an example of someone that kept walking through hell, and here I am because of that. So that would that would be it.

Speaker 1 · 43:11Wow, keep walking and yeah, find someone to share that with. That's really powerful. Thank you so much, Leon. Um, it's been an honor speaking with you today. I am I applaud your journey and your mission. I think you've done extraordinary things for humanity and uh keep walking, keep writing.

Speaker 2 · 43:34I will. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 · 43:36Absolutely. So thank you, Leon. And uh please visit uh leonlogotheetis.com. Um, stream the kindness within, a journey to freedom on Amazon Prime. And once again, uh Leon, thank you so much for coming. It was a pleasure speaking with you today.

Speaker 2 · 43:54Thank you very much.