Reclaim Your Mind: 7 Mindful Strategies For A Healthier Phone Habit, with Jay Vidyarthi

Speaker 1 · 0:00Welcome everyone. Really happy to introduce someone today whose work feels incredibly aligned with our times that we're living in. Jay Vajarthy is a mindfulness teacher, designer, and technologist. He has a brand new book out that I'm really excited about called Reclaim Your Mind. This book is something I genuinely appreciate and recommend. It's thoughtful, practical, and deeply relevant, especially for those of us navigating the tension between mindfulness and our phones. It's been widely recognized with praise from voices like Jack Cornfield, Ariana Huffington, Daniel Siegel, Shinzen Young, Richie Davidson. The list goes on, all saying that this is a book made for our times and that it's incredibly important. And they're all pointing to the importance of this work in helping us build a healthier relationship with our attention, with Jay as a pioneer of this work. Jay's work feels very real. Um it meets us in the middle of our modern life. It offers a way to relate to our attention and our technology and our lives with more clarity, awareness, and choice rather than feeling like we have to choose one or the other. So, Jay Vidyarthi, I'm really glad that you're here. Thank you for being with us. And I'm really looking forward to learning from you today.

Speaker 2 · 1:44Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 · 1:47In relation to concept around some of the words that we use around these concepts like folder and desktop, etc. Thinking out loud around Zoom. Zoom is a big word for us these days. There's this connotation of like speed, but also focus. There's like zooming and zooming. And there's this momentum and like pull. For me, at least, when I sense into Zoom, there's this pull towards speed and focus. Yes. So I'm just like thinking out loud about how do I actually relate to some of these concepts.

Speaker 2 · 2:26To me, that's good noticing, and it's relating to false urgency, right? It's the sense that these technologies are almost all designed to pull us, to pull, pull, pull. And that's why I've been teaching more and more of that practice I did at the beginning, which is to just let go of the need to do and sink into that being. There's a whole cornucopia of contemplative practices out there. And I truly believe different practices are suited for different people at different times of life, at different stages in their journey. But definitely in this context of the attention economy and technology, the effortless way, the great perfection, draws a lot of inspiration, I think, from letting go of that zooming, constant zooming.

Speaker 1 · 3:11We do have a question from Kit. Kit says, How do you approach tech burnout? I do a lot of presenting online, so I often attend online events with mic and video off, partially because I am out of bandwidth to be on camera and having that type of attention. Or with apps, I have to work to be on them rather than get caught in them. So how do you expend energy in a mindful way so your attention can be given to digital spaces for the amount it needs for the work or long-distance relationships?

Speaker 2 · 3:46Beautiful. Thank you for that question, Kit. First of all, I think even within your question, you're showing a healthy amount of self-awareness around your needs. So, first of all, having your camera off is self-care for you. And I think that's important. You're noticing that there is a sort of burnout that's happening. And I think in the response to burnout, certainly rest and relaxation and self-care and giving yourself space to recover and finding those tools that help you recover is sort of the name of the game. When you're presenting and attending these presentations, you might also inquire not into what you're doing, but how you're doing it as well. I do a lot of presentations online as well. And, you know, I used to just stack it in like an everyday meeting. It's like, well, I've got this meeting with this person, and then I'm going to go give this talk or whatever. But then I sort of noticed these take a lot of energy and there's a refractory period for me and I need to like rest. And so, for example, in the hour before we started today, I went for a walk down by the water as opposed to just stacking my workday because I'm like, okay, I'm going to expend a lot of energy with Sean. We're going to get into it. So give yourself that space. But then also while you're presenting, taking that moment to have a sip and to stretch and to do what's needed to keep that. Another thing is Zoom has an option to hide your view of yourself. I don't know if you've found that, but looking at the mirror for two hours is not healthy for anybody, I don't think. So making sure you're, as we described earlier, engaging in what other people are saying and not overly concerned with your self-image can also, at least for me, has reduced some of the burden. As for the second question, different people have different

Speaker 2 · 5:24relationships with technology. And so it sounds like having to work to be on them, it's like you've got a little bit of an avoidance or aversion to having to get on these things to connect with people, which I can totally understand. If you look at the literature on human relationships and the relationships with our kids and the relationships with each other and our romantic relationships, there's a strong body of evidence that suggests there's sort of four attachment styles. You may have heard this before. There's disorganized attachment styles, there's anxious ambivalent, there's avoidant attachment styles, and then there's the healthy or secure attachment style. Now, while I do believe there's probably some minority of people who truly fit the criteria to be considered, quote, addicted to their technology, I actually don't like to use that word for the majority of us. I think we all have a relationship with technology, and that relationship can become dependent, it can become toxic, it can become imbalanced, but also it can become secure. And so here's an example for me. Like you were mentioning being on a work meeting or being in a long-distance relationship and like having to connect online and having to be on these apps. Depending on your inquiry into what your own attachment style is with technology in general or with these apps, there might be different ways forward to establish a healthier relationship. So, for example, in the example you gave, it feels like maybe a lot of work to get on these apps for work or to get on these apps for digital spaces. So that leans a little bit maybe avoidant or disorganized. Like I don't really want to deal with this stuff. And that might be a place to kind of inquire into. And usually when I find someone who has an avoidant relationship, what I often prescribe is a little bit of curiosity and a little bit of structure. So is build in the structure to say, hey, I'm gonna take two hours to finally learn this work tool because every time I come on it, I just get stressed out and I feel lost. And people are expecting things from me. And then I get on and I realize that I missed messages all week. If that's sort of happening, it's like what I'll say is carve out two hours to go learn that tool and notice a way to bring that stress down. Similarly, a long distance relationship, it's like, oh, my partner is FaceTiming me all hours of the day, and I don't want to be looking at my phone. Build in a routine, build in a structure. So hopefully that's somehow helpful along with the strategies I've been sharing to kind of navigate leaning into these. And one more thing I'll say is on the meta-level, when you bring awareness, you might notice that avoidance is coming from some deeper tendencies around technology, that technology is bad, some fear, some guilt, some shame. And so sometimes working with that first can be really helpful. I was on a talk last week, and this woman basically shared that technology makes her feel stupid. Like she always feels like she doesn't know how to use it and she's always feeling behind. And what I said to her was that the guilt and shame we feel comes often from this sense that we're not accepting that different generations have different relationships to technology. I don't think adults and parents and grandparents should be shaming Gen Z and Gen Alpha for their very different relationship to technology. But I also don't think Gen Z and Gen Alpha should be shaming boomers for being like, I don't know what this technology is. And maybe that's just from my position as a millennial in between. So hopefully that's helpful.

Speaker 2 · 8:47Okay, I'm gonna move on to our next strategy. Set boundaries for positive ritual. So you've probably all at some point thought about setting a boundary around technology. Like, hey, I'm not gonna check my phone at night, or I'm gonna only do one hour of a certain app, or I'm not gonna check my work laptop until I get to the office, or I'm not gonna watch Netflix past 11. I'm gonna delete a certain video game, whatever it might be. So boundaries are obviously a very useful tool, and we do need to set skillful boundaries when we notice in awareness that we have a problematic relationship with a certain technology. But one of the tricks that I've found in my years of experimenting with this is it's actually very difficult, I find, to set a boundary without guilt and shame. Somehow it's so tricky to, for example, be like, I'm not gonna watch Netflix after 11 without me just being like, Jay, you're bad. You're a bad boy. You shouldn't be watching so much Netflix, right? It's just like a weird thing that happens. And maybe that's just my own upbreaking. I don't know. But one of the things I've found is invoking this concept of ritual to actually also set rituals around the things we love about technology. I'll tell you a real example. I set a rule at some point that I'm only gonna watch one show on streaming per day, one show or movie. I'm not gonna like watch a bunch of stuff. But I also made a ritual around it. Basically, what I noticed was when I set that rule, not only did I stop overwatching things, I became a lot more intentional about what I chose to watch. Like I had one credit to spend almost. And I'm like, I'm gonna choose something that really hits the moment. I noticed it was naturally bringing more awareness into my mind, really choosing something that feels right for this moment. So then I started to build on that and say, well, what is it that I like about TV? Well, I actually think TV is like a beautiful art form. Human beings are storytellers, and these are some of like the best stories. Like, come on, the movies are incredible. And to just be like TV is bad is completely like missing an entire branch of human culture at this moment. Like some of the best stories are being told. So then I was like, okay, I'm gonna choose a primordial story for a while. Like, I'm gonna try to pick stories that feel true and universal. So I kind of narrowed it into like either documentary or movies based on real stories. Then one thing led to another. I was like, I'm gonna pop popcorn. I'm gonna like get some tasty drinks, I'm gonna put my snacks away, or sorry, my phone away, and I'm gonna like make it an event. And I'm like down there with my popcorn and my drink, and I'm watching like, I don't know, Chernobyl or something. And it was so joyful and so connecting. And I had such a great time. And then I turn it off at the end fully satisfied in a way that I never felt even after binge watching 10 episodes of a show. Also, as an aside, notice the shame even in the word binge watching. Again, just like everything we learned in mindfulness, by paying full attention and making it a positive celebratory ritual, it felt amazing. And in fact, my first job when I was a teenager was at a movie theater. It kind of reminded me of that feeling of like getting to watch the movies the night before they came out in a private screening. And I was like, huh. And that was sort of one of the origins. And now I have rituals like I'll try to handle all my email at work first thing in the morning with the explicit intention of trying to put something in every email that will make the other person smile. It's just a fun little ritual. So, how do you not only set a boundary, but make that a positive ritual? And so I'll often guide people through practices to journal considering extreme boundaries and then craft a skillful boundary that's not too intense but not too easy. Find out what they love about a technology and build a positive ritual around it. And people have found some really nice breakthroughs with that.

Speaker 2 · 12:24Okay, we finally made it to the false urgency one. It's come up a number of times. So this is what I would say the most destructive illusion online. It's interesting how it pervades almost every category of technology. When you look at a news headline, what really happened is two elder statesmen had a conversation. And then what the headline says, so-and-so eviscerated so-and-so in a win for human rights. And you're just like, whoa, they're all designed to be like emergency. You have to read this. Your notifications. If you get a ding and it's the babysitter needs something and they have your kid, I mean, that's fairly urgent. But if you get a ding and it's like some app being like, don't forget to subscribe to premium, it's like, did you really need a ding? It's not the right level of urgency. So work messaging, email, that's true. Across the board in marketing, the messages are designed to target insecurities, target fears, target your desires to generate a sense of urgency because you are totally wired to address certain signals. Red moving bubbles draw your eye. So what a surprise. All the notifications on your laptop or your phone or whatever device you're on right now, if you look around, you'll see red bubbles because they're just designed to draw the eye. This is what we see online. It's a choreography of attention. And if you notice the root word of urgency is urge. Some of you may have done some of these mindfulness practices on noticing the impulse, noticing the urge. The practice I led at the beginning of our session today is very much about letting go of giving in to those urges. There is an opportunity here to reject that pattern. And the practice I like to lead is basically having people audit and engage with the device, usually their phone, with awareness, in slow motion, and noticing every urge that pulls at their attention. And it is actually kind of mind-blowing when you do this. And guess what? When I'm done all the strategies, that's what we're going to do together. So we're going to do that practice shortly. The important thing to understand about false urgency also is that we're social animals and language can trigger our nervous system. So if you think about our ancestors, if they saw a bear, the nervous system would go into fight, flight, or freeze. But what we were wired to do is to cooperate. So if someone else tells me there's a bear, I'm also wired to go into fight, flight, and freeze. Advanced that's of the modern world, we are literally swimming in a cornucopia of triggering language because that's what is on the front page of every news site on Reddit, on your social media, on your email. Your nervous system is constantly being told there's an emergency. The entire internet has basically organized itself. We have organized it, I should say, around putting the words that draw attention forward. And what draws the most attention in a crowded room is someone yelling emergency, someone yelling help. And the problem is not only is this trigger our nervous system constantly, so we're operating at a constant 11 of stress, it also makes real emergencies hard to find because everything is an emergency. The line that I put in the book around this, which I thought was a good way to capture it in a story we all know well, which is the boy who cried wolf. It's like, what is the boy who cried wolf in the modern era? It's the boy who missed the wolf in his backyard because he was busy tracking global wolf movements. Because we're basically doing that. We're on the internet getting stressed out about all these things that are way out there, and like our local community probably needs some advocacy welcome, and we don't even know what's happening. It's just this strange tornado of urgent words that are triggering our conceptual minds and triggering our bodies. But as mindfulness practitioners, we know that conceptual isn't always trustworthy, and that we can actually take a moment to bring awareness to these words and say, oh, I see that little countdown timer after I watch something on Netflix trying to stress me out. And I'm just gonna watch it with curiosity and say, huh, interesting. Or I might wonder, why is that there? Why did they design it so that the YouTube autoplays the next video? And how come when I'm looking up videos about an earthquake, the next recommended video is about earthquake conspiracies? Because that's what I'm more likely to click on. And these simple incentives of our society have led to these unintended consequences. Now, don't get me wrong, I do believe there are bad actors in the world, but I do not believe that there is some supervillain out there who's intentionally pushing these buttons. I believe this is a consequence of us expanding our intelligence well beyond our wisdom, creating this technology at such an aggressive pace and scaling it without necessarily mindful people who are thinking about what needs to exist versus what can we build, what can we make money off of. And so this is, I think, the challenge of our times. So reject false urgency.

Speaker 2 · 17:08The last and seventh strategy is a little different from the first six. The first six are about managing your ongoing relationship with technology, mainstream technologies that are a part of the attention economy. But as I mentioned, I work on a lot of technology that is designed to promote awareness, promote compassion, and promote well-being. So there is a growing category of technology that is intentionally promoting mindfulness, mindfulness apps being the mainstream example, but there's much, much more out there. Things designed for compassion, for insight and care. And what I want to say when I use the word vote is I'm not talking about the political process, though that is important. I'm talking about how when you pay attention to something online, you are voting for its existence. When you engage with an account, you are voting for its existence. So if there is an account that is promoting a lot of false urgency out there, by subscribing to it, you are voting for its existence. And so there is this possibility to not only pull back your attention from those that wish to exploit it, but also to intentionally devote your attention to the technologies and the technologists who are creating things with the right intentions, who are creating things that are trying to navigate this complex world of strange incentives and like Abha shared earlier, trying to market themselves on Instagram, they may have a countdown timer, right? They may have an ad. And we may say, oh my gosh, ads, countdown timers, this is all the attention economy. But what is being advertised? Is it an opportunity to bring more awareness into your life? Maybe those are the people that we want to support in the technological sphere. And this is a very, very sticky thing, and it's really up to you. But that's exactly the kind of awareness I'm talking about. It's like you have a right to make your choices about the apps in your life. Just because something's a mindfulness app doesn't mean it is or it isn't exploitative. But I think we've all interacted with technologies that we've found brought more connection and joy and purpose. And it doesn't necessarily have to be that, oh, this company is completely ethical and they're not participating in capitalism. It could be just like, hey, they seem to be making decisions that support my well-being while also running their business. It's up to you to decide what you want to participate in and how to participate in that. And so for me, you know, I have a sort of lot of information and ideas about technologies that are out there that I can share. But mindfulness apps are the easy example. I'm going to give you an example of another category. There's been a recent movement towards apps like All Sides, Verity, and Ground News. So these are examples of apps that use AI to scan the entire news media. So a given story arises. Like right now, as we're recording this, there's a lot going on in the Strait of Hormuz, for example. So what it'll do is it'll look at all of the different outlets coverage and it'll separate that information in a way that is actually compassionate to help the reader actually understand what's going on. So some ways it does this, for example. One way, Verity does a really good job of separating the facts from the spin. So I love Verity because it'll be like, here are the three facts that literally every news outlet agrees on. And they always read like this is what's happening. And then it'll say, here is the anti-establishment spin. So here's what people are anti-establishment are saying, and here is the pro-establishment spin. And here is the liberal leftist spin, and here is the conservative rightist spin. So you as a reader, you're not just reading the news, you're using this tool to have it like dissect it for you. Ground news in particular also actually looks at the coverage over time and maps different media outlets to their general tendency to spin. So it actually makes it transparent. Like, oh, you're reading Fox News, it tends to spin in this direction. You're reading CNN, it tends to spin in this direction. So this is an example of better tech. It's using these technologies to create something that's actually bringing more clarity, less polarization, more authentic understanding into the world. And you can have a similar conversation about video games, about social media, about work productivity apps, video conferencing apps, mindfulness apps, and all the above. So we should celebrate those examples. And we should also remember they're not going to be as polished. They don't have as big a budget. They're not going to be as sticky because they're not using dark patterns to command your attention. You're not going to find yourself naturally pulling them up every day the way you pull up TikTok. And that's where you can bring some awareness to say, I'm going to actually, as I mentioned earlier, delete TikTok and replace it with ground news. And that's what I'm going to check now. And in fact, did this once I had a sticky game on my phone and I replaced it with the chess app. And it was like every time I went to go play that sticky game, I sort of played chess. And not only was this more fun and took me back to my childhood when my dad taught me how to play chess, I actually ended up teaching my kid chess. And now we play together and it was like a very positive thing in my life. That that random gem crushing app was clearly not going to do for me. So celebrate technologies that bring awareness, compassion, meaning, and joy.

Speaker 1 · 22:09We have a guest teacher coming in about four months from now who is the lead mindfulness director for Calm. So for those of you who have questions about Calm and their content and strategies, you're welcome to join us. We'll make an announcement on the specific date, but she will join us in about four months from now for whatever it's worth.

Speaker 2 · 22:32Love that. So bring that question forward, Melissa. I want to see you at that one. It's a hard space to navigate to work in tech. I know this firsthand. I certainly would be a richer man if I had taken the easy jobs, but instead of trying to work on mindfulness stuff. But I will say there are people within tech that are trying to do the right thing. And I think all of us should support them. And even if their product isn't, it might be that individual who's trying to fight from the inside to make the product more mindful. And that's, I think, something to be sure.

Speaker 2 · 23:02So now who's ready for a practice? I know we've done a lot of conceptual thinking. So I will encourage you to actually have your phone nearby. We're going to use that in the practice. If you don't have your phone nearby, when we get to that part, you can imagine it or you can interact with another technology. And when you're ready, find yourself a comfortable position. Anything that feels restful yet alert. This is probably old hat for you, the way wherever you like to meditate. I usually like to be sitting, but if you want to lie down or baba, you're sick. So if you want to stay lying down, that's of course fine. And let's take a moment to let go of any intentions, downshift from all the conceptual space that we've been playing in. Taking a few breaths if that helps. Noticing how your body is landed and making any micro adjustments if you notice any sensations around how your feet are on the ground or angle of your hips, or letting go of your jaw or your cheeks, relaxing the muscles around the eyes, closing your eyes if that feels safe. And just remembering that anything I say is an invitation. But this is your practice. So you can use this time however you wish. You can ignore my instructions if you'd like, or modify. And we'll stay here for a few moments giving our mind and bodies time to settle. And now lightly introducing some awareness into whatever is pulling at your attention. It might be a thought, a sound, an itch. And what I'll invite you to do is whenever you notice an urge or an impulse to simply drop the rope. Like a tug of war. It's sort of pulling. And instead of pulling back, to just drop the rope, just relax into open awareness. And there's no need to try too hard to find something to drop the rope on. Can drop that rope too. Just being. And now maintaining this state of mind almost like you're holding a very full hot cup of tea. So you're moving in slow motion. Slowly and gradually open your eyes if they were closed. And as the light pours in, direct your attention to your phone. And already anything that you notice pulling at your attention, just dropping the rope. Like, this is weird, why am I looking at my phone? Just drop the rope. And similar to mindful eating practices where we slowly take a bite, I will encourage you in super slow motion to gradually pick up the phone, maintaining an awareness of anything that tries to pull at your attention as you inspect it. No need to interact with it. Just investigating it like you've never seen a phone before, like it's some sort of alien artifact. And you can just stay here for the rest of the practice if you'd like. But if it feels comfortable, at some point you might turn the screen on. Or you might notice that it automatically turns on. Another example of it pulling at your attention. And again, anything you notice pulling at your attention, see if you can drop the rope. And then continue like this with a super slow motion of a usual phone session. So very slowly unlocking it, noticing the color, visual details, and of course, anything that is trying to pull at your attention from this place of awareness. From this immunity to urges, this immunity to urgency. Just seeing it as a strange artifact. Perfectly appropriate to just investigate here and not engage any further. If you're feeling brave, you can continue to engage, for example, with a notification or with a specific app. But maybe don't start with the hardest app. Just exploring noticing illusions, conceptual illusions. Noticing uh features designed to create uh urgency, noticing calls for your attention, noticing the contrast between what's on the screen and the world around it. Whenever you're ready, you can put the phone away slowly, letting go of that practice, taking a few more moments, notice what arises after taking a breath to reset if you need.

Speaker 2 · 29:04And then let's carry that awareness forward back to the group. And I would love for your first thought as you reflect on what we just did, to go right into the chat for everyone to see if you're willing to share. To share what that was like for you, what you noticed, what was pulling your attention, any insights that might have arisen. Can be quite generous to share. And what I'll say about that practice is whatever came up, you might notice that this tiny little box has an incredible sway on our minds. And that's really the thing we can open up for people. It's like the ring. Yes, exactly. The one true ring. Such power. I can actually feel sensations in my thumb. Like my thumb is just trying to press buttons. You can just feel that urge directly in my thumb. That's like kind of connected to what Sean had said. So Tracy had immediately unlocked her phone before realized we were just going to look at it. Like the speed, the zoom, the urgency. This is the vibe. This is the thing that we can start to practice bringing more technology. Yes, Chrissy noticed some urgency of a message, probably in a red little bubble. What I will say is that this attention activism stuff is not just about personal productivity or screen time guilt. It's honestly about our rights. It's about a freedom of attention, same way we have a freedom of speech. And I think the internet does prove the power of our collective attention. And I think mindfulness practitioners and the next generation of teachers are uniquely positioned to sort of galvanize a healthier relationship for all of us. I think retreating from tech is an important part of this to unwind our habits, but avoiding it completely disempowers us from helping ourselves and other everyday folks in modern life. So carry this forward. I'm easily found online and always looking to reach out. So don't hesitate to reach out if you have anything you want to share. Thank you, Sean, for having me. This was a lot of fun. I really appreciate it. And I hope someone found this useful.

Speaker 1 · 31:16I think this is very useful. Jay Vajarthy, thank you so much for sharing all of this with us. Very powerful messages. And I love your openness and your invitation for us to help share some of these messages with the people who

Speaker 1 · 31:34we serve. I do invite everyone who's watching and listening to check out Jay's book, Reclaim Your Mind: Seven Strategies to Enjoy Tech Mindfully. You can check out his website at jayvidarthy.com. We'll put a link in the show notes. You can find the book Reclaim Your Mind wherever you get your books. That's also available on Apple and Spotify. And Jay, you seem like a philosopher, a thinker, a creator, technologist. So it'll be really cool to see how this unfolds and what new insights you bring to our unfolding world. So, Jay, thank you so much for joining us. It's been a pleasure. We'll be sharing this widely. I'll send you links via email. Really grateful to have you here. Thank you for joining us.

Speaker 2 · 32:28Thanks for having me. And thanks everyone for all your questions and your willingness to bring your phone out in the middle of the meditation.