A Mindful Approach to Imposter Syndrome, with Lou Redmond and Sean Fargo

Speaker 1 · 0:03Hi everyone, I'm Sean Fargo with Mindfulness Exercises. Welcome to this podcast episode. Today we're talking with Lou Redmond. Lou is an author, meditation teacher, life coach, and inspirational speaker. He is the author of a book called Find Your Truth, a modern day story about letting go of addiction and finding life's purpose. His meditations have been listened to over one million times, and his online courses have enrolled over 50,000 students. He's the host of the Art and Business of Meditation podcast, where he helps people make an impact and income using meditation. If you love meditation and want to use it as a medium to share your gifts with the world, then I recommend his podcast. And we get a lot of questions about how to develop a business around teaching mindfulness and meditation. So welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 2 · 1:13Same here, Sean. Thanks so much for connecting on my podcast and for having me on yours. It's been really, really cool to connect.

Speaker 1 · 1:20Absolutely. Yeah. Just curious if you could talk about how you've overcome imposter syndrome if you've had it, or how you help others to feel more confident, friendly, and incredible, you know, sharing these mindfulness and meditation practices.

Speaker 2 · 1:40Yeah. So when I hear credible, it comes from a certain level of competence and people I know want to feel confident. And I'll start with that piece first because I think wanting to feel confident is not where we should begin, because confidence is a result of competence, and competence is a result of repetitions. And repetitions is a result of having the courage, the courage to feel what you're feeling. And often that's fear, maybe that's imposter syndrome, to feel that and step forward and teach and guide and go into that experience and continue to grow. So what we're really looking for is not to feel more confident, but to be able to call on our resource of courage more. Because what courage says is I don't feel confident right now. I actually am feeling a little afraid or I'm feeling a little imposter syndrome. But you know what? I know that this is something that I want to share with people. I know that it's helped me and I know that it can help other people. And in that way, we can sometimes get out of our own way. Where I know I think Sean, you were talking about this on my podcast, but when we make it about something bigger than ourselves, when it's not about our ego and our, you know, whether we're the most qualified for it, and we make it about just can this be of service? Can this help other people? Kind of help us get out of our own way. Now, as far as specifically the imposter syndrome goes, that you know feeling that we're a fraud. I don't know if you ever read this book called The Art of Asking by Amanda Palmer. It's a phenomenal audiobook. She's an artist, she's a poet, she's all kinds of things, I think, a performing artist as well. And she has the greatest quote on imposter syndrome in that book, where it's like the feeling that the fraud police are at your door and they're knocking down the door. And you know, they're gonna come in and they're gonna tell you that you have no credibility to be doing what you're doing. They're gonna shame you, they're gonna strip away you of anything that you can be doing, right? This real feeling we have, paraphrasing her quote, but it's this real feeling that someone's gonna be out to get us if we you know show ourselves in this way. So I say that to really normalize it because it can be such an extreme feeling. And I've experienced it in those extreme ways. And especially with where this really shows up, if you have a teacher, if there's a teacher that is gonna be maybe in your class or you know, someone you've learned from, where if they find out that you're going and teaching, they're gonna be like, What? Like, are he they're teaching, they're teaching meditation? Like they were, you know, I they were struggling with this five, you know, months ago. How could they be? So it's those people sometimes that are in our head. And so it's working through that energy with specific people. The way that I've done this with specific people is I've actually reached out to these people and said, hey, I'm noticing that when you're in the presence, I feel judged. And I really guess having a really challenging, honest conversation, and sometimes that can diffuse it. That's a little, maybe that's level 10. The other aspect is developing a new relationship with imposter syndrome, because what imposter syndrome is saying is that you actually care, that you care about what you're going to be doing so much that you have a concern with doing it safely, that you have a concern with doing it properly, that you actually care. Because this is like the irony is that actual impostors don't care that they're impostors. They don't have that emotional connection where they're actually fine with being an imposter because that's why they're actually imposter. And so it's kind of interesting in that way. So the fact that you're feeling imposter syndrome means that you care. And I love Seth Godin, who, if you're in the meditation world, but maybe business is something that's newer to you, I highly recommend checking out Seth Godin. He's actually a student of Pema Chodron and phenomenal leader and teacher on marketing and business. And he's just a really an integrity person. And I love learning from him. And he talks about imposter syndrome in a way of that you are probably not the most qualified person in the world to be doing what you're doing. And that's okay. That he he would say that we're all imposters. There's probably someone more qualified, more credible, better to do the thing that we're doing. And that doesn't mean that we don't do it, right? That the time that we spend fretting about whether we're an imposter or not is actually getting in the way of doing work that matters, of actually, you know, making the change that we wish to seek. And so the way that I have shifted when I feel imposter syndrome, I actually seek it out now. I seek imposter syndrome out because when I'm feeling it, I know that I'm on that edge. I know that I'm leading in someplace new. Like the definition of leadership is to go into a space first where it is unknown, where you can't possibly know what's there, right? You have to lead yourself into that. And so if you can feel the imposter syndrome and change the narrative to whoa, oh, I'm on my edge. I'm on that leading edge of where growth really happens. And if I can shift that perspective, I can welcome it, and I can say, wow, this is really growing me. What an opportunity here. This is me being in the gym of my purpose, me being in the gym of my service, that I actually have to, you know, stress the muscles a little bit. And that's how I've kind of ninjaed my way around imposter syndrome to not only overcome it, but to actually welcome. I actually don't want it to go away. Because if it goes away, I'm not really on my edge. And that's actually, you know, if I'm being transparent, in the last couple of years, I haven't felt it as much. And I've started feeling it a little bit more now in leaning more into my podcast and reaching out to guests. Like I'm kind of leaning in that direction now. So it goes in waves. But in the beginning, I had so so so so much of it.

Speaker 1 · 8:32Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah, I love that reflection that if you're feeling the imposter syndrome, that it's a probably a good sign because you care so much. And you know, we can care about the people who were helping, care about the practice itself. People like Jack Cornfield and Joseph Goldstein, very senior, preeminent mindfulness teachers here in the West from time to time, but they ask some of their students if they want to teach mindfulness. And Jack Cornfield has said that if that person expresses some hesitancy about wanting to teach mindfulness, if they're expressing some self-doubt, or if they feel like they would be an imposter teaching mindfulness, that's actually a good sign that they care so much about the practice and wanting to teach with integrity. But if someone like Jack asks someone if they want to teach mindfulness, and that person says, Yeah, I'm totally qualified, I can do it. I have no reservation. You know, I think I'd be really good at it, then that could be a warning sign. You know, there's other context that needs to be considered, but that might be a sign that perhaps their ego is leading the way, they're overestimating their practice or their abilities, that there may not be room for wanting to continue learning as a student. So there's different factors here, but I love what you said about the care that we feel around teaching meditation, and I agree with you. I think courage is such a foundational cornerstone to starting to teach mindfulness, and then you said starting your repetitions. What kinds of reps do you recommend people to try when teaching meditation? Are there any types of practices or types of teachings that you recommend people to start building their reps in, whether it's with other people or just by yourself? Do you recommend reps sort of on a recording device, you know, audio or video? Love to learn a little bit about how you recommend people getting their reps in.

Speaker 2 · 11:10Yeah, such a different energy from live with a group of people to recording. And what I might recommend is to start live where you're doing it with friends. You're doing it, maybe you know someone runs a book club and you say, Hey, I want to come. I'd love to offer to lead a 10-minute meditation before you have your book topic discussion, right? So, example of just keeping it kind of small or community-based. And maybe you bring a little microphone and maybe you record it, and this is the hardest part and something I'm not good at. So I'm not the best at this, anyways, even though I'm going to say this, but I know people who are starting out on their mindfulness journey. And I have someone that I work with one-on-one, and you know, somehow she listens to every recording that she does from a live meditation. And I'm like, wow, kudos to you. And she sits through that cringe wordy, oh my gosh, I how could I have said that? Or I'm swallowing, or I'm saying um, or uh, you know, you catch that. But that's kind of sometimes sitting through that and hearing those things is helpful. So I think recording is a unique flex that you can do on your own. So that's an easy way to get reps. However, what I would really recommend getting in person or doing something live. Nowadays, so much is online where you can have a couple of people show up to a Zoom room, Google Hangout, whatever it might be, and just say, hey, I'm gonna do every Wednesday night. Here's a link. Anyone wants to show up, you throw it on Facebook. I'm gonna do a 10-minute guide of meditation to prepare you for the evening or something. So, you know, you maybe you remind people, maybe you get a list of people that come and you're kind of developing your own studio in a way. And that's what I did is I started a meetup group, a meetup.com group. I called it Meditation in New Jersey. And it was a free group at first with a you know option for donation if people wanted to. And you know, we met on Wednesday nights and I was an opportunity to get my reps in, and people kept coming back. And what was cool about that is people connected with each other and kind of this really cool community that started getting developed. It doesn't have to be so not that that's entrepreneurial, but it is kind of using a tool and getting people together. But you could reach out to different libraries and community centers, YMCAs, and you know, it takes sometimes effort to seek those things out. And so that's another flex in just putting yourself out there, being okay with rejection, but it could just simply be, you know, the people closest to you and getting some kind of routine to just slow down with people and start to feel comfortable guiding people. Now, you asked, like, how do people structure that? I think to begin, if you're looking to create some kind of structure, I mean the four foundations of mindfulness, you know, just teaching that or teaching the first and just kind of starting in that way, I think is a really great place for anyone to explore. It could just be exploring body sensations. I'm really into the art metaphor, so I could be wax poetic on this, and I'm sure some traditional teachers might chew me in this, but I like to think of a guided meditation like a painting. The structure of the meditation is the canvas, right? That it fits into 30 minutes, 20 minutes, like there's just a specific short time that it fits into. And then the elements of a meditation are like the colors. So elements of meditation, you know, breath, body sensations, visualization, somatic movement, chakras, gratitude, practice, loving kindness, metta, you know, different points of your body. So these become like I think of like the colors. It's like, oh, I have different things that I can kind of weave in depending on what I'm you know, wanting to offer. And then the painting, like what actually is created with those colors, which we all have, is endless. Like there's so many opportunities to create something that's unique with these basic elements of different ways. And there's definitely more, and there's definitely, you know, lineages where you want to learn one thing to a nut next. I probably taught a Tong Len practice sooner than was safe in some ways. Like I think there's a level of like waiting till someone has developed the practice to do something like that, because that could be intense. So understanding that sometimes is important. So, really, if it helps to see it as an art, maybe that's not how your mind works around it, but if it helps to see it like a songwriter singing a song and this, you just found your art in meditation and you get to sing your songs through your creations and what you guide people with, it might just kind of take off the pressure that it has to be, you know, so formal or look a specific way. But that's kind of how I look at it. I know that's not how gonna be how every teacher looks at it. If you're teaching MBSR, right, that's gonna be a very specific structure. You're gonna bring your art to that, but there's also very clear things that are within the boundaries of what an eight-week MBSR program is. And so for some people, that's really great and they love having that structure and working with that. So it kind of just depends on personality and how this fits in in your life. So that's gonna be different, just like we have different people, everyone's a different teacher, and it's also a way that we find our own voice and we find the people that are attracted to that, and it's all perfect. Like it's like some people, you know, need that teacher, and some people need that teacher, and some people attracted to this. And if our ultimate intention is to help people be more aware, you know, find deeper connections, being okay with just connecting with the moment and what is, then we're all, you know, like I like to use the analogy that I live in New Jersey, uh right across from Manhattan, pretty much, and I can take five ways to get to Manhattan, but it all gets me to the same place. So there's many ways that we can, you know, even just if you broaden the spiritual path, like you can use that, like many ways to the truth and many ways to lead people into connecting with themselves.

Speaker 1 · 17:29Beautiful. Yeah, this idea of building your reps can be so helpful for, as you said, finding our own voice, sensing into our own art or the colors inside us that we feel good about expressing you know, in the name of helping others. And you know, finding the teachings and the people who we want to help, you know, and crafting those. You know, that takes practice. Um when I started teaching mindfulness, it was very different than how I teach mindfulness now. And there's a journey that I think every mindfulness and meditation teacher goes through that sometimes it takes a while to find your voice, to find the messages that feel worth expressing, the messages that we've learned ourselves that we find relevant to helping other people. I want to thank you, Lou, for joining me today for this rich conversation around soul, imposter syndrome, putting the reps in, and how you've navigated this journey along the way to now helping millions of people through meditation and your courses, your book, and your podcast. For people wanting to learn more about Lou, I highly recommend going to his website, Louredmond.com. That's L-O-U-R-E-D-M-O-N-D.com, and checking out the art and business of meditation. You can subscribe to it on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Lou, thank you so much for joining me today.

Speaker 2 · 19:32Thanks, Sean. This was so much fun, and deep bows to you for the ray that you're shining in this world. It's definitely felt.

Speaker 1 · 19:41I appreciate that, and the feeling is mutual.